FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Sr. Pichu em 05 Out 2007, 12:41

Quilé NÃO é filha de Mystra nem de Eilistraee
o que aconteceu foi:
SPOILER: EXIBIR
quando o pai das outras seis irmãs matou (decepando provavelmente) o corpo da mulher que acolhia a essência de Mystra, Mystra após se revelar ao cara e falar as suas intenções, se deparou com o problema da criança que ainda vivia no corpo, e sustendo por magia, ia acabar matando a criança, já Eilistraee via um problema, uma de suas seguidoras mais fiéis estava fugindo dos drows e sua filha não-nascida tinha morrido pelo esforço da mãe para sobreviver aos ataques, e a criança morta só não a estava envenenando por que Eilistraee estava a ajudando. Mystra então se revelou à Eilistraee e propôs a "troca" das crianças, Eilistraee então aceitou e as duas saíram ganhando: Eilistraee com sua adepta VIVA e Mystra com sua filhota VIVA e Quilé Veladorn é a única das escolhidas de Mystra que serve outra Divindade como clériga
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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Elven Paladin em 05 Out 2007, 16:08

Se não me engano a rainha Amlaruil de Evermeet é escolhida do Seldarine. Ou seja, de todo um panteão.


Sim, ela é. E ainda é detentora de dois dos Grandes Tesouros de Evermeet, o Cálice de Labelas Enoreth e Tahlshara, a equivalente dos Elfos da Lua á Ruler´s Blade, empunhada outrora pelos Coronals de Cormanthyr. Sinceramente, nada mais que o esperado para um elfa de 900 anos de idade e que foi líder da única nação élfica sobrevivente desde a Queda de Myth-Drannor.

E levando em conta que os deuses élficos agem de maneira mais unida que quase todos os outros panteões e que não haveria muito sentido ter diversos Escolhidos para um povo em decadência, é muito mais razoável escolher a Rainha do único império élfico por bons séculos e manter seu povo protegido em um local do que espalhá-los por uma Faerun dominada por humanos.

raça decadente.


Cruzada de Seiveril, Resistência de Evereska, Retomada de Myth-Drannor ( e Cormanthyr ). Não tão decadentes assim.
Editado pela última vez por Elven Paladin em 06 Out 2007, 00:25, em um total de 1 vez.
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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Fëanor em 05 Out 2007, 17:24

Hoje eu mestro Forgotten. Norte, região das Fronteiras Prateadas. Mas no fim, faço algo parecido ao que o Shinryuu disse: aproveito o esqueleto do cenário (geografia, política, economia, alguns NPC's) e monto meu próprio Forgotten, onde a coerência sou eu quem dita. Existe o que eu quero que exista. E posso dizer que me divirto assim.

Para ser sincero eu acho que essa é a melhor maneira de usar qualquer cenário de campanha"

Os romances loucos de deuses, drows e demonios se matando servem meramente para entretenimento.
As vezes é até legal de usar algumas coisas, tipo o romance The Rage, conta a saga de um grupo high level que derrota Sammaster e acaba com "A Fúria". E eu gostei muito da aventura, seria legal mestrar prum grupo a mesma aventura, substituindo os personagens pelos jogadores.
"Tomorrow will take us away
Far from home
No one will ever know our names
But the bards' songs will remain"


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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor kaishakunin em 05 Out 2007, 19:23

Fëanor,
Nada contra também. Nem sempre as idéias mais legais são as do mestre. O problema que vejo é quererem algo totalmente mastigado e que o grupo de jogo só engula a trama proposta. O resultado dessa digestão, como eu próprio já provei, é uma m$#%@.

Agora, é essa aventura em que aparece um meio-golem?
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Mensagempor Styker em 06 Out 2007, 00:19

Sorcerer of Shadow escreveu:
Se não me engano a rainha Amlaruil de Evermeet é escolhida do Seldarine. Ou seja, de todo um panteão.


Sim, ela é. E ainda é detentora de dois dos Grandes Tesouros de Evermeet, o Cálice de Labelas Enoreth e Tahlshara, a equivalente dos Elfos da Lua á Ruler´s Blade, empunhada outrora pelos Coronals de Cormanthyr. Sinceramente, nada mais que o esperado para um elfa de 900 anos de idade e que foi líder da única nação élfica sobrevivente desde a Queda de Myth-Drannor.

E levando em conta que os deuses élficos agem de maneira mais unida que quase todos os outros panteões e que não haveria muito sentido ter diversos Escolhidos para um povo em decadência, é muito mais razoável escolher a Rainha do único império élfico por bons séculos e manter seu povo protegido em um local do que espalhá-los por uma Faerun dominada por humanos.

raça decadente.


Crusada de Seiveril, Resistência de Evereska, Retomada de Myth-Drannor ( e Cormanthyr ). Não tão decadentes assim.


Eu sei, para mim faz todo o sentido ela ser escolhida do Seldarine, só queria matar Oda do coração :b .

Também concordo que de uns tempos pra cá os elfos podem ser tudo em FR menos decadentes.

Kaishakunin:

Eu faço mais ou menos como voce, pego o esqueleto do cenário e o resto eu mestro, não fico me preocupando de ficar acompanhando linha temporal nao, uma vez ou outra é que uso algo pra a campanha mas raramente.
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Mensagempor Fëanor em 06 Out 2007, 12:53

Agora, é essa aventura em que aparece um meio-golem?

Yep! XD
"Tomorrow will take us away
Far from home
No one will ever know our names
But the bards' songs will remain"


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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Eltor Macnol em 06 Out 2007, 17:12

Do blog do James Wyatt:

Rich Baker is not the devil (or a demon)

As I said yesterday, I was very pleased to be the one who got to make the announcement about our change in plans for Eberron. I'm disappointed, though, that it has resulted in my being lauded as a hero while Rich Baker is being raked over the coals on the FR boards and mailing lists.

Rich spends more time on FR stuff than I do, and I spend more time on Eberron stuff than he does. But he and I are part of the same team, and we're on the same page with the decisions that are being made.

To start with, his post about demons and devils: That’s not entirely his doing. The idea of distinguishing demons from devils is something that goes back to the very first stages of Fourth Edition design. Rich is part of the story team I lead, and I was a part of, and supportive of, every decision about demons and devils he made.

Similarly, he's not the sole architect of the changes to the Forgotten Realms. Over two years ago, Rich, Bruce Cordell, and Phil Athans from our book department sat down together and hashed out the plan that’s beginning now to bear fruit. At GenCon 2005, the authors who are writing the novels that describe these changes (including Ed Greenwood) came to a top-secret meeting to discuss them. And in the end, it was a plan that was formulated and executed by our whole department, all the way up to Bill Slavicsek, and in consultation with the D&D Brand team.

The fact (unfortunate though it may be) is that Eberron and the Forgotten Realms are two different beasts.

Eberron is still a relatively new setting, and from the start it has taken a very PC-centered approach to events in the world. There aren’t a ton of high-level NPCs running around, doing the things that PCs should be doing. There haven't been world-shattering events that altered the world and demanded timeline advancement. Its novel line has told stories within the context of the setting without dramatically altering the setting. And its lore consists of a campaign setting book and maybe a dozen sourcebooks.

The Forgotten Realms is steeped in tradition. The setting is nearly as old as D&D is, and its lore consists of thousands of pages of printed material. We recently had the great pleasure of publishing a Grand History of the Realms that was compiled by a devoted fan, turning his hard work into a beautiful product that serves as an excellent compendium of much of that lore. That history includes the Time of Troubles, which served to explain the transition from First Edition AD&D rules to Second Edition. Realms-shaking events have been a staple of the FR novel line, and we've worked hard in the past to make sure that events in novels and events in game product stay in sync with each other. (Judging by the fact that I still hear stories about City of the Spider Queen every time I go to GenCon, I have to figure that a lot of those efforts have been very successful.)

In the Forgotten Realms, we have to account for the fact that fans will get up in arms when the game changes how infravision (now darkvision) works, because it makes certain passages in the first Drizzt novels nonsensical. We have to consider how our changes to the cosmology will affect the story told in the War of the Spider Queen books.

And I'm not saying that’s a bad thing. We love FR—really, we do. And we're making the changes we're making because we love it.

FR fans, we do hear you, too.

Just last week, my team (me, Rich, Bruce, Chris Sims, and Chris Perkins, who's my boss) had a long conversation about the changes we're making to the Forgotten Realms. We asked ourselves some hard questions about the direction we're taking, based on the questions you folks are raising. We discussed the directions that Rich and Bruce are exploring in the novels they're writing now, and talked about making sure that the new FR still feels like the FR we all know and love.

So we're not ignoring you. We just have to respond to you in a different way than we responded to the Eberron fans.

Partly that's because, quite frankly, we haven't started work on the new Eberron campaign setting. We've had meetings with Keith to talk about new directions, and he and I have both explored some new directions in our novels, but Eberron has a fundamentally different approach to its novel lines. He and I can tell our stories and let you tell your stories, and nobody has to worry about whether they're the same stories. We can change our tentative plans for the new Eberron book a lot more easily than we can change our FR plans.

For the Forgotten Realms, the decision has been made. It wasn't made in a vacuum, it wasn't made without any input from outside these walls, and it wasn't made lightly. We expected that there would be some outcry, especially during this period between when the word got out and when you get to see the new setting. But we're still confident that this was the right decision, and pretty excited for you to see what we're doing.

Why? Because our goal from the start has been to create the best Forgotten Realms campaign guide we could—the best setting for your game. It's a setting that new players can approach with wonder, enjoying what's there without worrying about what used to be. And it's a setting that you established fans can approach with a renewed sense of wonder, recognizing the Realms that you love so much in its newest incarnation. We think you folks will enjoy the story of the transitions, the fantastic events that have changed the face of the world—but not its heart.
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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Elven Paladin em 06 Out 2007, 19:35

Eu vou me limitar a comentar um trecho:

We think you folks will enjoy the story of the transitions, the fantastic events that have changed the face of the world—but not its heart.


Ahn, eles vão acabar com boa parte dos conjuradores de Faerun, vão exterminar boa parte dos deuses e auterar panteões, vão unificar Duergars e Anões, vão adicionar Eladrins, vão possivelmente acabar com a Weave, tornando o cenário algo de Dark Fantasy com a idéia de "Points of Light in the Darkness... e não vão mudar o "coração" de Forgotten Realms? Sorry, mas isso não faz sentido algum. Ou o autor é muito ingênuo ou é um mentiroso descarado.
"Eu não sou católica, mas considero os princípios cristãos - que tem suas raízes no pensamento grego e que, no transcorrer dos séculos, alimentaram todas as nossas civilizações européias - como algo que uma pessoa não pode renunciar sem se aviltar" Simone Weil

When you decide to grant power to government, start by thinking "What powers would I allow the government to have over me if I knew that my worst enemy in the world was going to be in charge of this government?" - Hastings & Rosenberg.
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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Eltor Macnol em 06 Out 2007, 19:45

Hehehehehe. Sim, é muito forçado dizer que o âmago do cenário vai permanecer o mesmo. Pelo menos com o que vimos até agora (e eu acho que com a pressão que estão sofrendo, vão liberar mais informações detalhadas muito antes do que planejavam - vejam abaixo).

Novos posts do Rich Baker:

I can't answer all your questions or respond to each remark, simply because my bosses want me to keep some of this stuff under my hat for now. I'll tell you more when I'm allowed to say more (and if nothing else, the conversations of the last couple of days have convinced me that it's time to reexamine our schedule of releasing peeks and previews for FR).

Anyway, why is Mystra dead? OK, several reasons, some in-world, some meta-management...

1. It's an appropriate (if grim) finish to the story of Cyric's betrayal begun in the Time of Troubles series. Time to move on and tell new stories about Cyric.

2. It's an appropriate (if grim) finish to the story of Shar's jealousy and desire to seize the portfolio of magic. Time to move on and tell new stories about Shar.

3. We know magic's changing anyway, and it seems like a stretch to say that Mystra would make that change herself. This way we don't have to explain why she would do such a thing. The answer's logical: She wouldn't, but if she's dead then it's completely out of her hands.

4. Many people--players as well as game designers and authors--perceived that Mystra (and her Chosen) were simply too strong. She's seen as far and away the most powerful deity, and her Chosen are clearly the most powerful heroes. Authors actually have to deliberately account for each of the Chosen when they're telling big stories and explain what they're doing or what they're not doing and why.

5. Some Chosen will still be around post-Spellplague, but we really do want to get them out of the spotlight and get your PCs (on the game side) or less superheroic characters (on the novel side) into the picture.

Obviously, you don't share these perceptions; I'm sorry we're not moving in the direction you'd like to see us go, but we're pretty sure that it'll be a better setting when magic isn't the purview of one deity and her Chosen aren't the toughest mortals on the planet. We do have our reasons, even if you don't agree with them.


Vou ter que apoiar ele nessa. Mystra e seus escolhidos precisavam cair na faca há muuuito tempo.

Só que a parte de pular um século inteiro no cenário eu ainda não engulo. Tampouco as desculpas (aparentemente) esfarrapadas pra terem matado vários dos deuses principais. Sim, eu acho que o panteão deveria ser bem reduzido mesmo, mas desde que seja acompanhado por justificativas decentes! Aquele resumo do Grand History of the Realms está muito mal contado.
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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Lune em 06 Out 2007, 20:36

Eltor Macnol escreveu:4. Many people--players as well as game designers and authors--perceived that Mystra (and her Chosen) were simply too strong. She's seen as far and away the most powerful deity, and her Chosen are clearly the most powerful heroes. Authors actually have to deliberately account for each of the Chosen when they're telling big stories and explain what they're doing or what they're not doing and why.


Spot-on. Eis um ponto em que dá pra concordar com essa maluquice que estão fazendo com FR. Agora, quanto às mortes daquele bando de deuses, não dá pra julgar baseado só no resumo... só lendo o Grand History of the Realms mesmo. Com o que nós sabemos até agora, é uma questão de perspectiva: Tyr matando Thorm em uma disputa romântica por Tymora? Tosco. Tudo era um plano de Cyric, que de quebra ajuda Shar a matar a deusa da magia? Massa XD
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Mensagempor Eltor Macnol em 06 Out 2007, 21:21

Mais uma do Rich Baker, o mesmo cara do post acima. Dessa vez ele responde à enxurrada de críticas que os fãs mais velhos do cenário têm lançado sobre ele:

On a different topic... I've been taking a real pasting on a couple of our message boards lately from irate Forgotten Realms fans. James wrote a very nice explanation/defense of what I've been up to (see James Wyatt's blog if you're interested), and I've been trying to figure out what I might add to that. I guess I'll add this:

If it was my goal to avoid criticism, here's what I would do: I'd tell you that I've decided to adopt every suggestion offered by folks currently expressing their dissatisfaction. I'd say that it's going to take a couple of months for me to go back and scrap existingRealms 4e work, so I won't be able to divulge details for quite a while while I try to atone for my stupidity. Then I'd do nothing at all and see how long it takes before people started asking me how it's going. It would buy me several months of no criticism, wouldn't it?

But it's not my goal to avoid criticism. I believe that the right thing to do is tell the truth, or say nothing at all. So that means that sometimes I'll say things that folks don't want to hear. When someone says "Don't drop 4e rules into the Realms, you'll screw up my campaign!" I'm only being honest when I say that it's just not an option to not bring Realms in line with the new D&D rules. I can't imagine what could possibly make us revisit that decision, so I'm just going to tell people what to expect instead of ducking the question or fibbing about what we're up to.

It's not that I'm not hearing you, it's not that I'm being condescending or patronizing or insulting or whatever other sinister spin I'm accused of laying down on the reader -- I'm just trying to let folks know in the most forthright and unambiguous way I can that we're committed on that particular part of the plan, and we're pretty sure that it's the right way to go for us, for D&D, for the Realms, and for (what we hope are) the vast majority of FR fans.

That's all I'm going to say on this score, because I really don't want to spend my blog space and time playing defense. I'd rather be looking to spill as many teasers, sneak peeks, and exciting tidbits as I can without getting my boss mad at me.


Fonte: http://forum.candlekeep.com:80/topic.as ... hichpage=3
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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Wykthor em 06 Out 2007, 21:58

Bom scoop, Eltor :)

1. It's an appropriate (if grim) finish to the story of Cyric's betrayal begun in the Time of Troubles series. Time to move on and tell new stories about Cyric.

2. It's an appropriate (if grim) finish to the story of Shar's jealousy and desire to seize the portfolio of magic. Time to move on and tell new stories about Shar.


Cyric volta a ser um vilão de verdade ao invés e Shar mostrando como uma greater goddess (e má) age. Perfeito quanto. a isso

4. Many people--players as well as game designers and authors--perceived that Mystra (and her Chosen) were simply too strong. She's seen as far and away the most powerful deity, and her Chosen are clearly the most powerful heroes.


Die, Bitchtra, Die! Não fará falta, deusa ridícula XD

Authors actually have to deliberately account for each of the Chosen when they're telling big stories and explain what they're doing or what they're not doing and why.
5. Some Chosen will still be around post-Spellplague, but we really do want to get them out of the spotlight and get your PCs (on the game side) or less superheroic characters (on the novel side) into the picture.


Espero que Simbul siga a vala dos épicos nessa.
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Arquivos de Mítica: Cosmologia do cenário, Errata de "Mítica - Desbravando o Oriente"

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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Eltor Macnol em 08 Out 2007, 16:05

Última do Rich Baker: em resposta a um fã do cenário, ele diz que é possível que os eventos mais "toscos" divulgados até agora sejam re-descritos ou revisados um pouco pra remediar o retorno negativo que estão recebendo dos fãs. Os eventos não serão anulados, ou seja, Mystra e Helm continuam mortos, a Spellplague ainda existe, etc, mas os detalhes de como isso aconteceu podem (podem, não necessariamente vão) ser revistos e melhor explicados.

Originally Posted by Reneshat

Rich-

I understand that the changes to the Realms have not been lightly wrought, and there are many considerations that require you move ahead with the changes, despite the vehement negative feedback many of these decisions have seen. However, as I'm sure you have seen, the complaints are numerous, and there are many valid ones that deal with specifics of situations as well as the larger scope of the situations as well.

I was wondering to what degree the minutia of these RSEs were written in stone? Could specific complaints, or more importantly constructive ideas possibly change some of the events in a manner that, while they will still be around and have the same effect, might help dampen the response they illicit? The first event that comes to mind, is the soap opera-esque display of deicide involving Tyr, Helm, and Tymora. If we could somehow come up with some idea that would not change the effects of the event, but possibly make this bitter pill slightly easier to swallow, would there still be enough room for changes to be implemented?

I realize that we are not going to be able to bring Helm or Mystra back, or halt the oncoming Spellplague, but many are hoping that when the aforementioned events are expounded upon, there will be more information that will make it not quite as bad as it currently seems. Is this false hope, or is there still room for some manipulation, just no changes in the grand design? I guess I'm just wondering how much your observation of our reactions actually matters, except in relation to the information and answers we are supplied. I would like to thank you for the time you have devoted to communication with us, and I hope for all our sakes that the 4ed Realms is everything that you seem to believe it will be.


The details are still mutable. We have a strong preference for not contradicting anything we just printed at the end of the Grand History (as you might imagine), but explaining things at more length or recasting the descriptions of these events a bit is possible.

I won't be doing that work myself, since I'm not actually scheduled to write the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. My time's assigned to other projects. I do intend to pass along to the fellows doing the writing work that there are a couple of points of, shall we say, intense concern that they might want to take a close look at.
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FORGOTTEN REALMS - Quarta Edição

Mensagempor Fëanor em 08 Out 2007, 18:23

Espero que Simbul siga a vala dos épicos nessa.

Só porque sou fã dela? XD
Pô a única feiticeira épica e já querem matá-la.

Tomara que o Papai Noelminster morra.
"Tomorrow will take us away
Far from home
No one will ever know our names
But the bards' songs will remain"


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