ND de personagens sem itens

[Bahamute]

Sim, são guerreiros puros, porém, o conceito deles é de monge mesmo, foram treinados por um mestre e talz que os ensinou a combater sem o uso de armas, porém, não são monges, são guerreiros, especializados no combate desarmados.

Vou dar uma pesquisada sobre esse voto de Pobreza...

[Torneco]

Já pensou em usar o Defender do ccenário Midnight? Ele tem um concento bem parecido com esse, um combatente desarmado, sem esse foco bobo de artes marciais orientais. Eu tenho ela salva no pc, ela foi liberada no site do cenário. Se quiser eu posto aqui.

[Deicide]

O Oathsworn de Unearthed Arcana também é bom pro conceito. O conceito dele é de um guerreiro ou defensor que rejeita utensílios e ferramentas e fortalece o próprio corpo. Ele faz "juras" para manter suas habilidades, do tipo "Juro Defender esta Cidade de todo o mau" ou "Juro derrubar o terrível Lorde X que domina estas terras".

Eu adoro o Oathsworn, apesar de ser fraco. Com Voto de Pobreza ele fica muito bom.

[Smaug]

Use a classe monge com BaB e HD de guerreiros...funciona bem, jah testei...

[Fëanor]

Pega 2 niveis de monge, depois vai guerreiro, depois pega uma classe de prestigio para combater desarmado.
No Unapproachable East tem o Shou Discipline.

Monge2/Guerreiro3/Shou Discipline 5
BBA: +9
Ataques: +8/+8/+3 + força
Dano: 2d6 + força
DV: 8d10+2d8
Talentos: Foco em arma, esquiva + 8 talentos.
Habilidades: Evasão, Rajada de Golpes (com qualquer arma).

PS: dá pra trocar um nivel de monge por 1 de guerreiro, aí você perde evasão mas ganha Especialização em Arma.

[Galardron]

Use a classe monge com BaB e HD de guerreiros...funciona bem, jah testei...

Claro que funciona, mas aí tu já aproveita e põe a classe guerreiro no lixo. A máxima 'monge é ruim' pode até servir para monge puro, mas definitivamente não se aplica a algumas boas combinações multiclasse. O Feanor já descobriu isso, e se alguém ainda duvida tenho um desafio: construam um personagem de nível 12 com elite array ou point buy 32 (o que preferirem pra compor sua idéia e estabelecer os limites da minha) e enfrentem meu monge 7 / shou 4 / dervixe 1. cavaleitomorto, meu shou ainda tá esperando teu gafanhoto na arena.

[Bahamute]

Pega 2 niveis de monge, depois vai guerreiro, depois pega uma classe de prestigio para combater desarmado.
No Unapproachable East tem o Shou Discipline.

Nunca ouvi falar desse livro, esse Shou Discipline, é uma CDP voltada pra esse tipo de combate?

Outra coisa que eu esqueci de falar, é que estou usando o talento: Superior Unarmed Strike, do ToB.
A seleção de talentos é essa: Ataque Desarmado Aprimorado, Superior Unarmed Strike, Foco em Arma (Ataque Desarmado), Foco em Arma Maior (Ataque Desarmado), Especialização em Arma (Ataque Desarmado), Acuidade com Arma, + Outros talentos.
Lembrando que, como são guerreiros "leves" eles tem a Destreza como seu maior foco.

Use a classe monge com BaB e HD de guerreiros...funciona bem, jah testei...

Mas, não fica um tanto forte?
Digo, uma rajada de golpes com BBA alta, ficaria formidável!

Claro que funciona, mas aí tu já aproveita e põe a classe guerreiro no lixo. A máxima 'monge é ruim' pode até servir para monge puro, mas definitivamente não se aplica a algumas boas combinações multiclasse. O Feanor já descobriu isso, e se alguém ainda duvida tenho um desafio: construam um personagem de nível 12 com elite array ou point buy 32 (o que preferirem pra compor sua idéia e estabelecer os limites da minha) e enfrentem meu monge 7 / shou 4 / dervixe 1.

Entendo, nunca pensei no moge como multiclasse, não sabia que ele funcionava bem em conjunto com outras classes.

O meu problema, é que não quero usar o monge, pois os personagens não tem aquele Q de lutador oriental, eles são mais como lutadores de rua, vandalos, ou se preferirem, luta-livre.
Uma classe que eu descartei totalmente, além do Monge, é o Esmagador do CW, pois não quero ver eles agarrando, ficaria muito "Zangief" (e, fora que eu acho um saco a manobra agarrar).

Já pensou em usar o Defender do ccenário Midnight? Ele tem um concento bem parecido com esse, um combatente desarmado, sem esse foco bobo de artes marciais orientais. Eu tenho ela salva no pc, ela foi liberada no site do cenário. Se quiser eu posto aqui.

Ficaria muito agradecido!
Pois quero muito fugir do conceito oriental.
Quero porradeiros sem itens nem nada, só com a roupa do corpo!

Em tempo:
Ontem, peguei um desses guerreiros, elevei o Nível dele para 18, e fiz 4 plyatests contra Monstros do LdMo de ND 14.
Um contra a Deeva Astral, outro contra o Senhor dos Lobisomens, Outro contra o Nalfshnee e por ultimo contra o Arconte Mensageiro.
Contra a Deeva, ele não teve chances, pois a redução de dano dela acabou com ele (ele é de tendencia bondosa), Empatou contra o Senhor dos Lobisomens, Empatou contra o Nalffshnee, e foi derrotado (porém a luta foi equilibrada) contra o Arconte Mensageiro.

Considerei todas as habilidades especiais desses monstros. algumas habilidades ele passava com facilidade, outras, ele era derrotado com facilidade.

O Playtest, eu usei com aquela receita do ND do Savage Species, sempre considerando como se caissse 10 no d20, para ultrapassar a C.A, Iniciativa, e Testes de Resistencia.

O Dano, usei a media dos dados (dado+ 0,5 +Modificadores).

Dá pra entregar a ele um ND 14 com essas considerações?
Ou seria melhor fazer mais uns ajustes no ND?


Quer também agradecer e muito a todos os que estão me ajudando, e se interessando pelo decorrer dessa minha empreitada suicida!

PS:
Esses NPCs que eu montei para essa campanha, também são um teste de Viabilidade que estou fazendo.
Pois vou jogar em outra campanha em breve e quero montar um personagem assim pra mim!

[Fëanor]

Nunca ouvi falar desse livro, esse Shou Discipline, é uma CDP voltada pra esse tipo de combate?

Pegue o monge e transforme numa classe de prestigio de 5 niveis com BBA bom e dv d10.

Ele não tem evasão nem deslocamento, mas ganha um bom bonus na CA (+3 no nivel 5) contra o oponente que for o "alvo" do talento esquiva, e pode usar rajada de golpe com qualquer arma...

[Dragão de Bronze]

O Shou tá em que livro mesmo?


Baha, eu não sei se vai dar certo nesse caso, mas você mesmo criou uma fórmula pra montar ND. Tá no meio dos tópicos que eu listei naquele tópico da wiki da Spell.

[Fëanor]

O meu problema, é que não quero usar o monge, pois os personagens não tem aquele Q de lutador oriental, eles são mais como lutadores de rua, vandalos, ou se preferirem, luta-livre.

Você pode usar a classe monge com o fluff que quiser. Se as habilidades como "Pureza Corporal" não fazem o estilo do personagem, subtitui por outras.
Mas não acho necessário. O melhor é usar no máximo 3 niveis de monge.

O Shou ta no livro de FR - Unapproachable East. Embora esteja no livro de FR ele serve pra qualquer cenário, afinal, não passa de um monge em forma de Classe de Prestígio. O problema é que pra usar a rajada de golpes ainda precisa de um nivel de monge...

[Dragão de Bronze]

Valeu, Feanör.

E eu acho que dois níveis de monge só tão mais que bons.

[Torneco]

Aí vai a classe:

The Defender
Updated to 2nd Edition
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special AC Bonus
1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Masterful strike +1
2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Defender ability,
Stunning Fist +1
3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Improved Grapple +2
4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Precise strike +2
5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Defender ability +3
6 +6/+1 +2 +5 +2 Incredible speed
or resilience +3
7 +7/+2 +2 +5 +2 Masterful strike +1d6 +4
8 +8/+3 +2 +6 +2 Defender ability +4
9 +9/+4 +3 +6 +3 Incredible speed
or resilience +5
10 +10/+5 +3 +7 +3 Precise strike II +5
11 +11/+6/+1 +3 +7 +3 Defender ability +6
12 +12/+7/+2 +4 +8 +4 Incredible speed
or resilience +6
13 +13/+8/+3 +4 +8 +4 Masterful strike +2d6 +7
14 +14/+9/+4 +4 +9 +4 Defender ability +7
15 +15/+10/+5 +5 +9 +5 Incredible speed
or resilience +8
16 +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +10 +5 Precise strike III +8
17 +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Defender ability +9
18 +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 Incredible speed
or resilience +9
19 +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Masterful strike +3d6 +10
20 +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Defender ability +10

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Starting Possessions: 1d4x10 vp.
Class Skills

The defender's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local)(Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + Int modifier.

Defender Class Abilities

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A defender is proficient with a variety of traditional weapons that are necessary as tools; by trianing with everything from lengths of rope to wooden boards, the defender ensures that he can always carry a weapon without being accused of breaking the law as he does so. This list includes the club, dagger, dart, Farmer's ropes, handaxe, inutek, light hammer, light pick, quarterstaff, sickle, throwing axe, sling, and great sling.

Defenders are proficient only with padded armor, and not with shields; as with weapons, wearing more visible armor in occupied territory would only serve to mark the defender as a target, not protect him. Because the defender regularly fights for his life wearing nothing more than padded clothes, the defender loses his defender abilities, masterful strike, precise strike, and AC bonuses when wearing any armor other than padded or when using a shield.

AC Bonus (Ex): When wearing armor no heavier than padded, the defender gains the listed bonus to AC. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when the defender is flat-footed. He loses this bonus when he is immobilized or helpless.

Masterful Strike (Ex): Even the simplest weapons can be taken or destroyed, and as such the defender trains to defend himself when unarmed. He gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat at 1st level. Additionally, his unarmed strike damage improves to 1d4 for Small defenders, 1d6 for Medium defenders, and 1d8 for Large defenders.

At 6th level, a defender deals 1d6 extra damage when he hits with a successful unarmed strike. This extra damage increases by 1d6 at 12th level and by another 1d6 at 18th level.

A defender's bonus damage dice only apply against living creatures with discernable anatomies--undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to a defender's bonus damage dice. As with other example of bonus dice, the extra damage from masterful strike is not multiplied when a critical hit is scored.

Stunning Fist (Su): At 2nd level, the defender gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites. The DC for a defender's stunning fist is based on his Strength modifier rather than his Wisdom modifier. A defender with the Stunning Fist feat may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to his defender level +3, plus one additional time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than defender, but no more than once per round.

Improved Grapple: Even the mightiest orc cannot use a vardatch when he is being grappled. At 3rd level, defenders gain Improved Grapple as a bonus feat.

Precise Strike (Ex): Assaulting heavily armored orcs with one's bare fists is excellent training for finding the weak spots of creatures that seem immune or resistant to normal weapons; at higher levels, a defender can find the weak points even in seemingly invulnerable creatures like constructs and elementals. At 4th level, when using an unarmed strike, a defender may ignore 3 points of damage reduction of any type whenever he inflicts damage. At 10th level he may ignore 6 points of damage reduction when inflicting damage, and at 16th level he may ignore 9 points of damage reduction when inflicting damage.

Incredible Speed or Resilience (Ex): Living a brutal life under the Shadow has taught defenders that, against superior numbers and better armed forces, speed or resilience are often the only defenses. Each time this ability is gained, the defender may choose incredible speed or incredible resilience.

If he chooses incredible speed, his base land speed increases by +10 ft. This increase to speed should be applied before the speed reduction from armor or encumbrance is calculated. If he chooses incredible resilience, he gains +3 hit points.

Defender Abilities: At 2nd level and every three levels thereafter (5th, 8th, 11th, etc.), a defender may choose one ability from the following list. The defender cannot use any of these abilities or gain any of their benefits when wearing armor heavier than padded or using a shield, or when using weapons other than unarmed strikes or weapons with which defenders are normally proficient.
Defender Abilities

Defender abilities are organized into tiers. Tier 1 abilities have no prerequisites. Tier 2 abilities each have one specific tier 1 ability as a prerequisite and most require one of the defender's daily uses of Stunning Fist. Tier 3 abilities each have two specific tier 1 abilities as prerequisites and most require one of the defender's daily uses of Stunning Fist.

Tier 1 Abilities

Flurry Attack: The defender's penalty for fighting with a weapon in his off hand (including attacking with an offhand unarmed strike or using both ends of a double weapon, such as the quarterstaff) is reduced by one. This ability may be chosen multiple times, each time reducing the penalty by an additional 1. This benefit stacks with feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.

Defensive Mastery: Each of the defender's saving throws gains a permanent +1 bonus. This ability may be chosen multiple times.

Dodge Training: The AC bonus granted by the defender's class ability increases by +1. This ability may be chosen multiple times.

Grappling Training: The defender may attempt a disarm, sunder, or trip attack against a foe with whom he is grappling. In all cases, the attempt takes the place of a normal attack and is resolved with opposed grapple checks rather than with the normal opposed attack roll or opposed Strength check; only the normal modifiers to the grapple checks are used.

For instance, if an Erenlander defender attempts to trip a dwarf with whom he is grappling, the dwarg does not gain his +4 racial bonus to avoid being tripped; likewise, if a halfling defender attempts to disarm the greataxe wielded by the orc with whom he is grappling, the orc does not get a +4 bonus to the roll for wielding a two-handed weapon and the halfling does not suffer a -4 penalty for using a light weapon (thought the halfling does suffer the normal -4 size penalty on the grapple check).

Offensive Training: When a defender has successfully stunned a foe with a stunning attack, he can attempt to blind or deafen his opponent for a number of rounds equal to his Strength modifier. The round during which the opponent is stunned does not count against the duration of this effect. The stunned opponent may make a Fortitude saving throw (DC equal to the DC of the defender's Stunning Fist attack) to avoid this effect, albeit at a -4 penalty.

Speed Training: Once per round, the defender may make an additional move action, either before or after his regular actions. He still cannot move more than 5 ft. if he takes a full round action. A defender that performs a full attack action, for instance, could use his extra move action to stand from prone, close a door, draw a weapon, or pick up an item; he could not use it to move his base speed. Alternatively, if the defender took a double move, he could use this ability to move even farther; if he moved and then attacked once as a standard action, he could use this ability to move away again (possibly provoking attacks of opportunity from his opponent).

Tier 2 Abilities

Cover Ally (Requires Dodge Training): Once per round when and ally within 5 ft. would be struck by a melee or ranged attack, the defender can choose to suffer the effects of the attack. The defender must choose to cover the ally before the effects of the attack are determined (i.e., before damage is rolled, saving throws are called for, etc.). Using this ability uses up one of the defender's daily uses of Stunning Fist.

One With the Weapon (Requires Offensive Training): The defender chooses one weapon with which defenders are normally proficient. The defender maynow use masterful strike, precise strike, and the Stunning Fist feat with that weapon. These defender class abilities may only be used with ranged weapons if the target is within 30 ft. This ability may be chosen multiple times. Each time it is chosen, the defender may either choose another weapon or may increase the range at which the abilities may be used by 30 ft.

Rapid Strike (Requires Speed Training): Once per round the defender may make an extra attack with his primary weapon at his highest attack bonus, either before or after his regular actions. This ability does not stack with haste, Cleave, or other effects that grant additional attacks. Using this ability uses up one of the defender's daily uses of Stunning Fist.

Strike and Hold (Requires Grappling Training): Once per round as a free action, the defender may attempt to establish a hold against any opponent he hust hit with an unarmed strike. If he succeeds, he may deal additional damage to the target as with an unarmed strike. He then has the option of letting the target go or of moving into the target's space and maintaining the grapple. Using this ability uses up one of the defender's daily uses of Stunning Fist.

Tier 3 Abilities

Counterattack (Requires Dodge Training and Offensive Training): Once per round when a foe within reach misses the defender with a melee attack, the defender may make an immediate attack of opportunity against the foe. This ability may not be used in conjunction with the weapon trap ability. Using this ability uses up one of the defender's daily uses of
Stunning Fist.

Devastating Strike (Requires Grappling Training and Offensive Training): When a defender has successfully stunned a foe with a stunning attack, he can opt to initiate a bull rush as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Unlike a normal bull rush attempt, the defender does not need to move with the target in order to push him farther than 5 feet. The stunned opponent is allowed to make a Strength check to resist the bull rush, albeit at a -4 penalty. Using this ability uses up one of the defender's daily uses of Stunning Fist.

Furious Grapple (Requires Grappling Training and Speed Training): Once per round when the defender is grappling an opponent he may make an extra grapple check as a free action at his highest grapple bonus, either before or after his regular actions. This grapple check may be used to perform any of the actions in a grapple other than casting a spell, regardless of whether the action takes the place of an attack or is a move action, standard action, or full-round action. This ability does not stack with haste, Cleave, or other effects that grant additional attacks.

Retaliatory Strike (Requires Dodge Training and Speed Training): Once per round the defender can make an attack of opportunity against any foe within reach that successfully strikes one of the defender's allies. This ability may not be used in conjunction with the cover ally ability. Using this ability use up one of the defender's daily uses of Stunning Fist.

Weapon Trap (Requires Dodge Training and Grappling Training): Once per round when a defender is attacked by a foe in melee but before the attack roll is resolved, he may make an opposed attack roll to catch the weapon in his bare hands. Modifiers are applied to both roll as if the defender were attempting to disarm the attacker. This ability may only be used once per round, and the defender must have both hands free to make the attempt. Using this ability uses up one of the defender's daily uses of Stunning Fist.

If the defender fails, he is hit and damage is dealt as normal. If the defender succeeds, he has grabbed the weapon by the hilt, the flat of the blade, etc., such that he suffers no damge from the attack. The defender may now perform one of the following as a free action:

Attempt to disarm the opponent, which does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the weapon trapped is a natural weapon, this option is impossible.

Automatically deal damage to the weapon as with an unarmed strike. If the weapon trapped is a natural weapon, the damage is dealt to the creature.

Make a single unarmed strike against the opponent, who loses hi Dex bonus to AC (if any) against the attack.

Once the defender has resolved one of these actions, the weapon is released. The attacker may continue with his turn as normal, including making additional attacks with other weapons if able.